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« 'Defending the transgressed' | Main | Around the grounds »

August 10, 2005


George Carty

As I mentioned on Yusuf's blog, Hizb ut-Tahrir could be considered the "Bolsheviks" to al-Qaeda's "nihilists".

The Bolsheviks and Hizb ut-Tahrir are both "vanguard party" type organizations, while groups like Hamas and al-Qaeda, like their 19th century Russian predecessors in Narodnaya Volya (The People's Will) carry out acts of terrorism, originally in the hope radicalizing the masses through the inevitable brutal state reprisals, but later on turned into death cults exalting in violence as an end in itself.

Iqbal Khaldun

Well said, Underprogress. An interesting anthropological analysis there George. I tend to agree.


agree that banning is counterproductive. but must note that their logic and rhetoric is deceptively attract to new recruits to islam or people under that initial missionary zeal phase. and cannot denote the fact that most easy to read- islam lite publications (i.e. those who dont have the sophistication to read western philosophy)have a tone of contempt and hatred towards west and an totalising view of islamic polities. this delusional khalifat dream needs to be destroyed once and for all for the practical, unromantic road of active engagement mired as it is politics and compromise. and also how about some good old fashioned spirit/soul/sufism? starting to think the christian concept of God/caesar divide is a good one.

MCB Watch

MCB Watch also have a recent posting on Hizb ut-Tahrir, examining why the MCB are now standing up for radical Islamism.


Agree with Caesar in that while banning is unproductive, the Muslim community must completely discredit the notion of a caliphate as a viable option for muslim self-government.

In my opinion, a lot of the problems stem from the fact that when Islamic history is studied by Muslims, a disproportionate focus is placed on the time of the prophet and the rightly guided caliphs giving a sense that utopia is possible.

If more attention was placed on what happened to the various muslim caliphates after that, then the ridiculousness of having a pan-islamic caliphate would be obvious.

Finally, it seems that HT amongst other things use the perfect solution fallacy. So their stop Islamophobia campaigns and general recruitment start with - our civil liberties are being restricted, blair is a bad prime minister, look at what's happening in Iraq, hence we need to return to shariah and a caliphate.

Anyways, I've gone on for too long. Will check back for replies.

George Carty

What Islamic societies (indeed all non-Western societies) really need to do is determine which areas must be Westernized for the society to compete in the modern world, and which aspects of traditional society can be retained.

It's an extremely difficult task - the only country that really pulled it off well was Japan....


Let us not use the word "Westernised", but replace it with "modernised"

George Carty

If more attention was placed on what happened to the various muslim caliphates after that, then the ridiculousness of having a pan-islamic caliphate would be obvious.

Yes, the Khulafa' Rashidun were brilliant men, but the system in which they operated was fatally flawed even at the time (which is why it didn't last very long). The Western equivalent of Hizb ut-Tahrir would be an organization trying to re-create the ancient Roman republic.

Adeel Naeem

The de facto role of the US armed forces will be to keep the world safe for our economy and open to our cultural assault. - Major Ralph Peters, US Military

“I left the post of the ruler of Caliphate only because of the obstacles and threats on the side of people who call them – Young Turks. The Committee of Unity and Progress obsessively insist on my agreement to form a national Jewish state in the sacred land of Palestine. But in spite of their obstinacy I strongly refused them. In the end they offered me 150 million English pounds in gold, but again I refused and said the following to them: ‘If you offer me gold of the world adding it to your 150 man, I won’t agree to give you the land. I have served Islam and the people of Muhammad (S) for more than 30 years, and I won’t cloud the Islamic history, the history of my fathers and grand fathers – Ottoman Sultans and caliphs.’ After my definite refusal they decided to remove me from power, and after that they told me that they would transport me to Salonika and I had to resign. I praise my benefactor who didn’t let me bring shame on the Ottoman state and the Islamic world. I want to stop at this. I praise the Almighty once again and finish my letter.” - Sultan Abdul-Hamid in a letter - Sept 22 1911

"We must put an end to anything which brings about any Islamic unity between the sons of the Muslims. As we have already succeeded in finishing off the Khilafah, so we must ensure that there will never arise again unity for the Muslims, whether it be intellectual or cultural unity" - The British Foreign Minister addressing the British Prime Minister shortly before World War II.

"It’s a hard choice, but I think, we, think, it’s worth it." Her response to a May 11, 1996 60 Minutes question about the over half a million children killed by the [Iraqi] sanctions. - Madeleine Albright 64th U.S. Secretary of State - US policies

…after greeting your majesty we wish to inform you that we have heard of the great progress which the institutes of knowledge and industry in your country enjoy its pure abundance.…So, we wish that our sons learn of these virtues so that it serve as a good beginning in following your example for the sake of spreading the light of knowledge in our country which is surrounded by ignorance, from all sides. We have placed our niece, princess ‘Doubant’ at the head of a delegation of girls of the English nobility to have the honour of kissing the trimmed fringes of the throne and imploring the kindness, so as she and her girl companions be the object of your highness’ attention. The young princess has been provided by a modest gift to your majesty…we wish you accept it. With glorification, and sincere love….signed: your humble servant, George II. - Letter from George II, king of England to the Khaleefah Hisham III

“Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people.” - Oscar Wilde

Caliphate is coming soon, Inshallah!

Adeel Naeem

Misapplication of the system does not make a system flawed. Mistakes commited do not make a system flawed...There were mistakes committed in the past(By usman r.a. for not regularly changing the Waliz), system was misapplied( Incase of Muawiya r.a.). One aspect of the system( bayah) was misapplied.

Hizb Ut-Tehrir is doing a great job.Mashallah.


Please see my post relating to islamic theocracy on my blog.

good to have you back thabet!


I agree with Eli's comment. Japan did not "westernize," they modernized. Likewise, Korea is modernizing, not westernizing (I lived there for a year). Singapore (where I currently live) has both westernized and modernized.

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